renewable

[hammers4spanner]

Just started on a large site of block of flats which is all gas

when i asked the mechanical company (which aint a small one) how come no renewables here they simply said its carp and its not all that its cracked to be.They have been ripping out and re converting to gas alot of renewables that have been installed .

Also a huge mechanical company i recently worked for said the same that reneables are crap

now this is not the first time i have heard this over the last year

do you guys think we are being sold a fast one?

 

[kris]

Id like to hear outcome of this thread as im getting my air source , ground source and solar thermal later this year ,,, but i 2 am interested to what everyone thinks, me personally your average household havent the spare cash to spend on some of these systems, its more your slightly higher in ladder folks,

 

[hammers4spanner]

Im interested on opinions as well because I'm hearing more and more negatives regarding this fuel alternative. Was thinking myself about getting on board the bandwagon , my neighbour has had solar done and said it's carp wouldn't bother.

Now some big firms have worked for have been negative about it,

Starting to make me wonder

 

[IDCHAPPY]

It's a multi billion pound industry so they must be doing something right, but if it's not designed or installed correctly and the installation place isn't designed or built correctly then there's going to be problems.
From 2016 there is *supposed* to be no new gas lines going into new housing schemes. ..

 

[Nostrum]

This isn't anything new, half the continent have used these technologies for years and well.

The difference is they need to be designed and installed correctly. Something that doesn't come cheap compared to any old lad who can chuck a combi on the wall and hey presto.

Which solar are you referring to? P.V or thermal? Both work, ones is more viable than the other in terms of payback.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I'm going to be doing the courses as well soon as I'm also interested in them .
Might manage to squeeze some PV on my roof in the future

 

[Ray Stafford]

For what its worth, here's my two pennoth.

I think the whole renewable thing has been oversold to the public and the industry. I don't think that the general public is anything like so "green" as they were before 2008/9. Without getting into the whole "oh-yes-it-is, oh-no-it-isn't" climate change debate, it is no longer political or academic suicide to question the green consensus.

Now the government has backed off some of its requirements for zero carbon, and more or less in the same breath has announced plans to ease the way for more fracking.

A little experience has also taught us that it ain't so easy to retrofit green technology, and whilst its much easier in model show-houses, its also not so easy in smaller brownfield sites - particularly when converting other structures for residential use.

I predict a much more gradual (and sensible) take up of renewable technology over two to three decades, led by solar thermal and some ASHP. I also expect to see heat recovery become more main-stream outside of new build. I still expect to be selling gas and oil boilers on the day that retire - probably in 19 years time.

 

[Worcester]

Designed AND installed AND commissioned properly renewables based heating systems works just fine, no, more than that it works great!

Quality assurance in all elements is paramount, and therein lies the problem.

Having contributed to a number of threads the number of people involved in installing boiler and radiators that don't know how to size a system or do heat loss calculations is sad reflection on the 'traditional' plumber.

You have to size the heat generator correctly, you have to size the emitters correctly, you need to design the hydraulics correctly (buffers etc)
You then need to ensure it is installed to the design !
You then need to commission them correctly and finally educate the user how it works.

Leave it to Jo Bloggs GSR plumber and it WILL go wrong. - There again look how many threads there are of carp installed gas heating systems and how many people have problems with them - shed loads.

I do not get involved in the Climate change / sustainability discussions with clients, I do show them how a properly designed, installed commissioned and USED, renewables based heating system can and will save them money.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Just to make it clear Gordon - I am not saying the don't work when, as you say, they are properly designed, installed, commissioned and used.

But whereas a few years ago, it looked like there was a rising and irreversible trend, now I just don't feel it. In 2011 and 2012, I couldnt have a meeting with a big supplier without them ramming renewables down my throat. Only one company has mentioned it to me in the last 6 months.

 

[SimonG]

I was waiting for Worcesters reply , and anticipated the content. Exactly what I would expect from a professional on the renewables installation supply.

However, climate change is gonads, there is scientific evidence that the climate of the earth is cyclic. Its been hotter than this before (without good old homosapien pumping out co2 thinning the ozone) and its been a damn site cooler. It goes around and comes around.

Anyway, the threads not about that.

Now renewables, I know very little about the renewables side, except im not impressed with all these schemes, additional green taxes and the fact that by paying your green taxes one of the smaller countries in the world is going to greatly reduce its carbon footprint. Especially when you have emerging economies spewing out co2. China springs to mind.

I honestly cant remember the last time a customer asked about renewables.

In fact I think renewables shouldnt be called renewables at all. Maybe they should be called alternatives. Its also really funny that it seems to be people that, shall we say, are better off that opt for renewables. Perhaps it makes them feel better about driving round in there 6 litre range rovers doing four gallons to the mile.

To all those making a living off the back of it, crack on and long may it last. Im just waiting for the arse to fall out of the bio mass

 

[Ermintrude]

If arsenal falls out of bio mass gonna be a lot of cold schools and hospitals

 

[efficiencyman]

It`s a bit of a sad state when much of the industry can`t come forward in a positive way. What hope is there for joe bloggs to become informed, save themselves some wonga, burn less fossil fuel, be cosy without the costs, breathe fresh air with MVHR, etc. etc. When even the industry front line has such a negative attitude and understanding of how renewables could work successfully. One thing for certain is that renewables need to be fully understood by the trade installers before it will be taken up in big numbers by anyone other than enlightened greenies.

 

[kris]

Thats exactly it simon , like i said in an earlier post your average joe public will never in his life purchase any renewable heat source , even if hes offered a payment scheme it just wont happen, renewables are priced for slightly higher up the earnings ladder , I think also the way the gov has handled the MCS has been diabolical and theyve made so hard to keep track of wots wot when it could have been made so simple,,,,,

 

[hammers4spanner]

Designed AND installed AND commissioned properly renewables based heating systems works just fine, no, more than that it works great!

Quality assurance in all elements is paramount, and therein lies the problem.

Having contributed to a number of threads the number of people involved in installing boiler and radiators that don't know how to size a system or do heat loss calculations is sad reflection on the 'traditional' plumber.

You have to size the heat generator correctly, you have to size the emitters correctly, you need to design the hydraulics correctly (buffers etc)
You then need to ensure it is installed to the design !
You then need to commission them correctly and finally educate the user how it works.

Leave it to Jo Bloggs GSR plumber and it WILL go wrong. - There again look how many threads there are of carp installed gas heating systems and how many people have problems with them - shed loads.

I do not get involved in the Climate change / sustainability discussions with clients, I do show them how a properly designed, installed commissioned and USED, renewables based heating system can and will save them money.

My point are it's not small had firms that are designing these systems it's massive mechanical engineering firms that I have worked for are now saying they are not good .

Firms that lead the way in these sorts of technologies

As for Europe and renewables Germany is sliding towards gas again

 

[hammers4spanner]

Ray has basically stated what I am seeing a green trend that seems to be hitting the buffers a tad